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Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

I just updated the Beta version 3.0.

Caution! It introduces a change in preferences management: preferences, as well as furniture and textures individually imported in Sweet Home 3D catalogs (I don't speak about SH3F or SH3T files here) are not saved the same way from this version 3.0 Beta 5. All the existing preferences and previously imported files won't be forgotten, but all the ones you'll import from now won't appear in previous versions of Sweet Home 3D.

Why this change? For portability sake. smile
No need of the existing Export to SH3F plug-in or the unexisting Export to SH3T plug-in to backup or transfer your Sweet Home 3D configuration. From now, you just have to copy/paste the content of a directory from a place to the other. By default, this location still varies from an Operating System to the other following the same rule as before:
- under Windows Vista / 7, the folder to copy is C:\Users\user\AppData\Roaming\eTeks\Sweet Home 3D,
- under Windows XP and previous versions of Windows, it's C:\Documents and Settings\user\Application Data\eTeks\Sweet Home 3D,
- under Mac OS X, it's the subfolder Library/Application Support/eTeks/Sweet Home 3D of your user folder,
- under Linux, it's the subfolder .eteks/sweethome3d of your user folder.
You'll see that as soon as you updated preferences, these directories contain now a new file named preferences.xml that will replace system preferences from now.

But there's more: It's possible now to change the "preferences" folder where are stored preferences.xml and imported files, and the "application" folders where are stored SH3F, SH3T, SH3L, SH3P and recovered SH3D files. These folders are specified with the com.eteks.sweethome3d.preferencesFolder and com.eteks.sweethome3d.applicationFolders System properties.
Miserably it's not really possible to test these new options with Java Web Start, but I'll be pleased to read your opinion about the new options described in the javadoc comment of the com.eteks.sweethome3d.SweetHome3D class.
I hope these new options will satisfy most needs bound to portability and installations on local networks.

By the way, I'd like to know your desires about a portable version. Do you prefer:
- a big zip file that will contain Sweet Home 3D executables for each OS along with JREs for Windows, Linux 32 and 64 bits (probably something as big as 100 MB compressed / 300 MB uncompressed),
- a smaller zip file that will contain Sweet Home 3D executables for each OS without JREs that the user will have to install on his side (probably something 16 MB compressed / 23 MB uncompressed),
- a Jar executable file like the existing one that requires an installed JRE too (15 MB compressed / don't need to be uncompressed but people are not used to double click on a Jar file).
Of course, all these portable versions will store their preferences and other application data in a subfolder of the folder from which the portable program will be launch.


Finally, I also added the background image in the printed plan, if it's visible. If you don't want it at print time, hide it! wink

[Edit]I released version 3.0 Beta 6 one hour later this message to fix an annoying bug that deleted some of the imported files when preferences were modified in version 3.0 Beta then modified again in version 2.6. It ended up by new prefixes for furniture and texture imported files in preferences folder.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Puybaret at Oct 4, 2010 11:31:27 PM]
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Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

@pencilart & db4tech
I updated again how transparent window panes are computed in version 3.0 Beta 7, to ensure pencilart's models are rendered correctly with SunFlow.
This should also make the color of transparent items less strong.
I hope this time it will satisfy everybody. smile
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
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pencilart
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Looks Purrfect now! :D



Heeere's another one, this time with the glass door cabinets and I used a blue light too:

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[Edit 1 times, last edit by pencilart at Oct 5, 2010 5:47:28 PM]
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Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Today's beta version brings the ability to render walls, floors and ceilings either as matte (the default), or as shiny, with new radio buttons added to Wall and Room dialogs.





As these options are available for each wall and each room, you'll be able to mix shiny and matte surfaces in your home if needed.
At this time, shiny surfaces are rendered with SunFlow shiny shader but I'd try to replace it by Uber shader, once I find a way to avoid the white spots experienced by fhoofman and others.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
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db4tech
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

the source code is available in CVS
Thanks for the link. smile

blue sky that appeared during the night, I simply turned off Sun light
Good thinking!

can you increase the "Plan" zoom factor x10
I'm going to try.... What I want to try first is to zoom on mouse pointer location
Sounds like a great idea!

The current factor is smaller than in the plug-in but I tried it at 100% with a light located in very large rooms and felt the value I finally chose was largely enough.. Remind that Sweet Home 3D isn't designed to draw stadiums... [;)
Hmmm after doing some tests, still not bright enough at 100%. wink Actually it's funny that you make that second point, with you not knowing a feature I've already added to version 1.6.2! biggrin

It would be helpful to have a preference option, to not hide the cross-hairs too!
I want that users understand that this sphere is bound to selection only and won't be taken into account at print or with image creation at the 2 lowest quality level.
I've been giving this some further thought, all other 3D applications (that I can think of) don't hide the lights place holder, when the lights aren't selected?

Users would easily learn that your new light sphere or lights place holder doesn't render.

There has been no misunderstanding so far about that feature added to 1.6.1.

All I ask is for a preference option to let a user choose, so they can make their own decision. smile

3D Lights placeholder
Hide unselected:
Show unselected:


I don't mind if you want to make your bizarre idea the default option. tongue (Couldn't resist a bit of harmless teasing, after you called my original (temporary!) light control method bizarre. biggrin)

No, the developer of SunFlow finally helped me to add support for transparency and transparent textures. By the way, again many thanks to him!
Fantastic news, maybe SunFlow does have a future after all! smile


stronger glass colour, maybe a bit too strong?
It's the contrary: their color was too clear before. If you compare to the OpenGL view the glasses you show, you'll see they are supposed to be really green.
I did and here are the results.

Knowing that there can be subtle differences between graphics cards and driver colour representations, I tried to do a tougher test as possible.
As an extra note, my screen is colour calibrated and I'm using an Nvidia graphics card.

Added the render images again, to save users scrolling back and forth between posts.


OpenGL 3D


DirectX



VMware virtual computer drivers OpenGL 3D


VMware virtual computer drivers DirectX


1.6.1 & 1.6.2 render


3.0 beta 4 render


3.0 beta 7 render


Also took some real compare photos, trying to simulate the render: Only have 2 Hi Ball Tumbler glasses though. smile



To my eyes the original glass colour (as seen in 1.6.1 render) is the most accurate to real life so far, and fairly closely matches OpenGL 3D and DirectX previews. Obviously this will vary slightly for people viewing this thread on uncalibrated screens.



Other Ideas for 3.0
One request I made before was for, the ability to lock the size proportions on the furniture editing dialog box , this would greatly help when re-sizing items (like it is by default when importing an object)
This doesn't have to be a wordy or complicated affair, I think something like The GIMP uses would be the easiest, and is also language independent.

Proportions locked



Proportions unlocked


While editing light bulbs size, the proportions should be automatically locked (and the proportions unlock option grayed out)
So that users understand that the lights (no matter what size they enter in 1 field, because they are sphere lights) the lights always expand the same amount in all directions.


Thank you for your work on 3.0 and for implementing the matt and shiny wall options. smile

db4tech
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by db4tech at Oct 6, 2010 3:58:10 PM]
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hansmex
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

db4tech, Emmanuel,

I very much like the idea of a lock function for furniture size. The link icon would be perfect, as far as I'm concerned. You could add a tool tip when hovering over the icon to explain what it does.

Hans
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whippetsleek
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Puybaret, I hope I haven't asked for too much, but I do want to say that having the light frame disappear when not selected is very hard to work with sometimes. I do alot of my scenes with lights, and as you can tell by some of the renders I did, lights are very important to my designing. Sometimes I need to be able to line them up, and it is hard to do when they disappear. I was so happy when db4tech made the first light frames, because it made it so much easier to place the lights exactly the first time. Please consider making it a choice to have the light frames visible all the time?

I appreciate your work on this free software, and think it's a great program!

EDIT:

Also, maybe a choice whether or not the sun is on? Now that transparent textures are fixed, and with more outside foliage, the sun casting such strong shadows at night time makes for some unrealistic renders. But I can understand the reasoning you gave for having the sun on.. smile
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by whippetsleek at Oct 6, 2010 5:12:44 AM]
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hansmex
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Emmanuel,

Just found out you released v3.0 b9 :-)
You're incredibly productive with almost daily new releases and new features!!

So far I've discovered in beta 9:
- Keep proportions - that changes all dimensions at the same time (very!! useful)
- Part of base plan - that locks a model to the ground and makes it unchangeable when the floorplan is locked. Great too!!

Thank you!

Hans
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Puybaret
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Hans, you're right, I just released the version 3.0 Beta 9 with new features that you requested. wink
As the following capture shows, there's two new check boxes in the Furniture modification dialog:



- When the Keep proportions check box is selected, width, depth and height are updated proportionally.
- A selected Part of base plan check box means that a piece of furniture will be considered as an item belonging to the base plan when locked and then won't be selectable (this new check box can't be unselected for doors and windows on purpose). This new option was discussed with Hans in this discussion.
This new option has an other side effect on locked plans too. From this version, all doors, windows and not movable furniture is considered to be part of the base plan (before only doors and windows were taken into account).
- I also improved color transparency rendering again for the 2 best qualities. Read my answer to db4tech below for more information.

@db4tech
The current factor is smaller than in the plug-in but I tried it at 100% with a light located in very large rooms and felt the value I finally chose was largely enough.. Remind that Sweet Home 3D isn't designed to draw stadiums...

Hmmm after doing some tests, still not bright enough at 100%. Actually it's funny that you make that second point, with you not knowing a feature I've already added to version 1.6.2!
Unless, you really have a very convincing proposal that would make me change my mind, I don't think I'll change it again (and it would oblige every beta tester to reset again their light power settings).

There has been no misunderstanding so far about that feature added to 1.6.1.
The advanced rendering plug-in is used by... advanced users, who generally don't mind some more difficult concepts.

I've been giving this some further thought, all other 3D applications (that I can think of) don't hide the lights place holder, when the lights aren't selected?
The other 3D applications like AOI or Blender don't target the same kind of audience, and don't offer a printing function, so it's not that much comparable.

All I ask is for a preference option to let a user choose, so they can make their own decision.
I'm going to think about it.

[...] To my eyes the original glass colour (as seen in 1.6.1 render) is the most accurate to real life so far, and fairly closely matches OpenGL 3D and DirectX previews. Obviously this will vary slightly for people viewing this thread on uncalibrated screens.
I had to change the way the transparency color was computed because the formula didn't take into account the transparency factor (SunFlow "absorbtion.color" is ignored when "absorbtion.distance" is equal to 0!). I changed it again and I hope this time it will satisfy everybody. Here are image tests I computed:

Sweet Home 3D OpenGL rendering


Advanced Rendering Plug-in 1.6 rendering


Sweet Home 3D v3.0 Beta 7 rendering


Sweet Home 3D v3.0 Beta 9 rendering


A detail under Beta 9 rendering


@whippetsleek
Also, maybe a choice whether or not the sun is on? Now that transparent textures are fixed, and with more outside foliage, the sun casting such strong shadows at night time makes for some unrealistic renders. But I can understand the reasoning you gave for having the sun on.
There's no sun light at night, so your problem must come from something else. sad


Finally, two questions:
- Does Matte should be spelled "Matt" or "Matte" in English?
- I really would like to add support for horizontal/vertical move of selected items + proportional resizing of the selected piece of furniture with the mouse. Most drawing software let the user perform this operation with the Shift key pressed, but in Sweet Home 3D the Shift key is reserved to temporarily toggle magnetism. sad
At this time, as version 3.0 will be a major version change, I wouldn't mind to introduce a little incompatibility in the mouse behavior compared to previous versions. My idea is to change the toggle magnetism short cut from the Shift key to Ctrl+Shift keys (or alt+Shift under Mac OS X), and use the Shift key for horizontal/vertical move + proportional resizing, instead of keeping the current Shift key and use Ctrl+Shift keys for the new behaviors.
What is your mind about this proposal (don't forget unadvanced users)?
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer
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[Edit 1 times, last edit by Puybaret at Oct 7, 2010 1:54:36 AM]
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hansmex
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Re: Sweet Home 3D 3.0

Emmanuel,

- 1 -
"matt" = without brilliance
"matte" = is a term from film making (wikipedia )

- 2 -
I'm not sure I understand what you mean with this behaviour. But, as you said, v3.0 introduces some major changes, so one more shouldn't be too big a problem. Means just more questions on the forum :-)

Hans
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