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UbuntuBirdy
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

OMG, the SeaShell project takes much more time than expected. Anyway, there are some more boats to show, so let's go.

COBO1215
This is my try to create a really cheap Houseboat. And I could not beleve how cheap it is... full equipped it costs you only about 70'000 Euros (all the prices I offer for the boats are only roughly calculated)! For a 15m long and 5m wide boat this is a very good price, but - this price is without mounting work - because it is a kit-boat.



But it's a simple work to mount this boat: the hull is built from a modular pontoon system with a steal frame on it. And on top of the frame you put the house. And this is just as simple as writing it, because the house consists of two sea containers.
You say you can not cut metal and you can not weld something? Hey, learn it by building this boat!
So, I beleve you now figured out what COBO means - right, COntainer BOat. And 12 is the length of the house - 12m and 15 the length over all - 15m.
As all of my boats COBO1215 has an electric propulsion and all the electric energy you will ever need on this houseboat is generated by the pv system and two wind turbines.



COBO1215 offers plenty of room for 4 persones: there are two bedrooms with a kingsize bed in each, a big bathroom with shower, bathtube, toilet, sink and a towel heater.
In the big kitchen you will find all the space you need to cook a good meal, a fridge-freezer, a dishwasher, a inductive stove an a big workplate for preparing the fishes you cathed.
The livingroom offers 10m2 for spending time if the wether conditions are bad. But if the sun is shieing, you can go upstairs on the sundeck. There you have a awsome sight over the water where you are navigating on and you have all the space you need for relaxing, bbq, reading a book or just sunbathing.











COBO1215 has not the 100% autarky as the two bigger boats LUXPLORER and LUXEMOTOR. This means, you have to refill freshwater (1000l) and you have to pump out the black (500l) and grey (500l) water tanks. But these tanks are big enough for spending many carefree days!









There is one limitation: COBO1215 is too high for some of the old bridges over the french canals. Apart from that just enjoy your time on COBO1215!
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Pascal

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[Jul 31, 2018 12:51:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
antonioperez2002
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

I love this!! It's amazing!!
[Aug 4, 2018 4:37:27 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UbuntuBirdy
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

Thank you guys, but it seems you are real landlubbers. And I do not want to fill the forum with stuff that almost nobody cares about.
This ship has sailed - so I'll stop here.
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Pascal

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[Aug 5, 2018 5:51:57 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
VeroniQ
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

No, don't stop! It's very interesting. I didn't know containers could float. There are quite a lot of Sweet Home 3D users who work with containers, but it is the first time, I think, that's someone use them for a boat. Did you built it? Have you got any picture of the real one?
(And it is always funny to realize how Swiss people are good in boats!)
[Aug 5, 2018 9:16:44 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UbuntuBirdy
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

Switzerland has the third highest value of boats per inhabitants, so we have to be good in boats! But atm the innovations come from Germany, USA or from Australia.
Unfortunately, all my boats are only concepts so far (no photos of a real one), but if I get a chance, I will take it and build one or some of them.
VeroniQ, I will think about a continuation, but only after my vacation. And probably not until I finished SeaShell...
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Pascal

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[Aug 5, 2018 10:42:00 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

..seems you are real landlubbers... ..third highest value of boats per inhabitants...
Hope all these boats do not sail Lac Léman at the same time...smile where, btw, did you come across this statistic, do you mean owned or registered?

Agree with VeroniQ. Interesting project, with nice interior solutions. Was not planning to comment, but after a day out at sea yesterday (actually, most days since May, now that I think about it). Nice day, sheltered waters, 10 m/s wind. Passed several (moored) houseboats. many of which have similarities to your project. I have been on board a couple of them. Your concept is certainly feasible, but comparing with the real life ones, a couple of questions spring to mind - not least VeroniQ's point about containers.
..modular pontoon system with a steal frame on it
...
house consists of two sea containers...
Steel frame + two freight containers (?). You may have considered this, but I admit to some doubts:
  • Condensation: some clever insulation might be needed to avoid moisture.
  • Corrosion: in salt water steel is pretty high maintenance. And I fear in freshwater too.
  • Height: a freight container is some 2,6 m high. More than needed on a boat. The height increases air draught, for bridge clearance, but equally important, windage. Maneuverability will suffer (bow, and possibly stern, thruster will be needed, and more engine power too), as will stability (higher centre of gravity).
  • Weight: If I remember correctly, an ISO 668 40' freight container weighs just short of 4 tonnes and a 'normal' pontoon floats < 200 kg/metre length.
You do the maths, but a lighter superstructure with a lower centre of gravity is no disadvantage. Using prefabricated mobile barracks is a possible alternative.

However, this does not make much difference to your design as such, but gut feeling is that it would be easier with an aluminium structure with light sidings, without - I think - significant cost increase.
..electric propulsion and all the electric energy you will ever need on this houseboat is generated by the pv system and two wind turbines
...
bathroom with shower, bathtube, toilet, sink and a towel heater.
In the big kitchen you will find all the space you need to cook a good meal, a fridge-freezer, a dishwasher, a inductive stove an a big workplate for preparing the fishes you cathed...
Hmmm. Both propulsion and all your electric stuff? Quick, off the top-of-the-head calculation: 35m² of pv (<7kW with good sun?), two wind turbines (<500W at >8ms?), my marina has a max of 750W for each boat. If you go with a - probably too weak - 80 hp/60 kw electric outboard, it will still suck 60 kWh worth of battery dry in one hour at full throttle. But you could prepare sushi on the induction cook-top, of course. Electric is great, but I suspect you may need to consider hybrid if you wish to leave the dock. Prices for electric marine engines + batteries are currently prohibitively expensive, but that may change.
.. freshwater (1000l) and you have to pump out the black (500l) and grey (500l) water tanks...
Do inland sewage stations distinguish between grey- and black-water - EU has some rules on this, I think? Anyway, I would seriously consider a marine toilet that flushes a fraction of the water compared to landlubber ones. And if you have kids, choose the electric/grinder ones. A clogged manual one is a pain - no fun in open waters. And a (marine) shower will save you a lot of water and electricity compared to a bathtub.

Please keep posting. While there are only few treads on houseboats, that does not mean the project is not interesting and a good match for SH3D.

If anyone wants to attempt a (pontoon) houseboat project - there are some manufacturers that sell pontoon structures. I got a quote from a German manufacturer for the tests in thread 6956 - models shared in SF 3D models 397. Note that this was a random choice never investigated further, so no opinion on different manufacturers. Also, there are several used (pontoon) houseboats for sale. Often at reasonable prices if you are willing to refurbish.
[Aug 6, 2018 10:38:48 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UbuntuBirdy
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

Steel frame + two freight containers (?). You may have considered this, but I admit to some doubts:
  • Condensation: some clever insulation might be needed to avoid moisture.
  • Corrosion: in salt water steel is pretty high maintenance. And I fear in freshwater too.
  • Height: a freight container is some 2,6 m high. More than needed on a boat. The height increases air draught, for bridge clearance, but equally important, windage. Maneuverability will suffer (bow, and possibly stern, thruster will be needed, and more engine power too), as will stability (higher centre of gravity).
  • Weight: If I remember correctly, an ISO 668 40' freight container weighs just short of 4 tonnes and a 'normal' pontoon floats < 200 kg/metre length.
You do the maths, but a lighter superstructure with a lower centre of gravity is no disadvantage. Using prefabricated mobile barracks is a possible alternative.

However, this does not make much difference to your design as such, but gut feeling is that it would be easier with an aluminium structure with light sidings, without - I think - significant cost increase.

Of course, it have to be hot dip galvanized steel. And of course aluminium would be a better solution, but IT WILL RISE the costs significantly! And the COBO boats are designed to be as cheap as possible.
The same situation about the containers: they are the cheapest possibility to have a solid house on the pontoon platform. And I know that tey are too heigh, but that's the price for a cheap boat.
The pontoons itselfe are computed by the manufacturer, so they will lift the realy heavy House.
The heavy weight of the boat can also be an advantage, it will reduce the roaling effect. And for a house boat this is a big advantage.

Hmmm. Both propulsion and all your electric stuff? Quick, off the top-of-the-head calculation: 35m² of pv (<7kW with good sun?), two wind turbines (<500W at >8ms?), my marina has a max of 750W for each boat. If you go with a - probably too weak - 80 hp/60 kw electric outboard, it will still suck 60 kWh worth of battery dry in one hour at full throttle. But you could prepare sushi on the induction cook-top, of course. Electric is great, but I suspect you may need to consider hybrid if you wish to leave the dock. Prices for electric marine engines + batteries are currently prohibitively expensive, but that may change.

Remember, my boats are designed for the inland waterways. So, you never need 80hp. In fact 25hp would already be enough, and 40hp are comfortable powered for a house boat on inland waterways.
And of course, if you have a pv that generates <7kW out of 35m² and wind turbines <500W you have saved money on the wrong parts. Sunpower X-Series modules and Schachner SW1.5 wind turbines are the must have for a boat like COBO1215.

Do inland sewage stations distinguish between grey- and black-water - EU has some rules on this, I think? Anyway, I would seriously consider a marine toilet that flushes a fraction of the water compared to landlubber ones. And if you have kids, choose the electric/grinder ones. A clogged manual one is a pain - no fun in open waters. And a (marine) shower will save you a lot of water and electricity compared to a bathtub.

There you are right, grey and black water tanks are planed for future EU rules. ATM there are only a few inland sewage stations along the European inland waterways and most of them are only pumping stations where your black and/or grey water will be pumped out of your tanks and directly and unfiltered released in the water where you are navigating on... And unfortunately some cities do the same thing, since the Middle Ages...
Of course, a bathtub is a luxury thing on a house boat, but if you choose to live the whole year on this boat, you will love it! I always try to offer as much comfort as possible for a long stay on the house boat.

If anyone wants to attempt a (pontoon) houseboat project - there are some manufacturers that sell pontoon structures. I got a quote from a German manufacturer for the tests in thread 6956 - models shared in SF 3D models 397. Note that this was a random choice never investigated further, so no opinion on different manufacturers. Also, there are several used (pontoon) houseboats for sale. Often at reasonable prices if you are willing to refurbish.

In my opinion Technus offers the best pontoon system on the market right now.
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Pascal

SH3D 6.2 / Ubuntu 18.04 (Mainline-Kernel) / Radeon RX580 / Ryzen 7 1800x
[Aug 6, 2018 11:57:47 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

..pv that generates <7kW out of 35m² and wind turbines <500W you have saved money on the wrong parts...
Interesting discussion - and relevant to off-grid/tiny-house/eco-friendly SH3D designs too. I must be missing something, because I still do not get the maths. My understanding is that max performance the very best photovoltaic panels is still <23%, which I believe roughly translates to max 230W/m² at optimal angle and perfect conditions. A couple of years back we did some tests on a 42' monohull sailing yacht during a long haul. Owner was an electrical engineer friend who had lived on board. Components tested were best quality, albeit with a smaller diameter wind turbine. We measured the turbine - if I remember correctly - to a dismal < 1/3 of rated output @ 8-9 m/s. The turbine you mention is 190 cm diameter rated 1500W @ 13 m/s, however, curve indicates 100W @ 4 m/s, 200W @ 6 m/s and 500W @ 8 m/s. But how often do you get stable > 6 m/s wind on inland waterways? So I still do not see how pv / wind can supply enough power to propel the boat. Certainly, you are right in saying that a good multihull could get pretty good general energy mileage. Do you have an estimate of energy consumption at cruising speed, i.e. stipulated range nm/kWh for your construction?
..never need 80hp...
You are right, at least for normal cruising and on lakes. My worry is based on gut-feeling: what if you go river upstream against a 3+ knot current and you hit a narrowing passage with increased currents, unpredictable winds and lots of vessel windage? A 50' 10+ tonnes boat is way beyond what I have ever considered for outboard power, but again, it should be interesting to see the estimations for waterline/speed and power/shaft speed and prop dimensions.

Maybe it is different for inland waterway navigation, but I have helmed boats of various sizes in narrow straits with tidal currents. No later than Sunday, in fact. True, I fear underpowered boats, based on some experience. While max power should not mean much on the overall energy usage, and rarely used, it is still crucial for maneuverability in critical situations - but then - my coast can be pretty rough, so maybe it does not compare.

..computed by the manufacturer, so they will lift the realy heavy House... ..hot dip galvanized...
Sorry, I did not mean to imply that it is impossible to fit pontoons to a pair of freight containers in terms of buoyancy. A lot of unnecessary weight, but possible. My primary concern would be the centre of gravity on a boat with little or no ballast. Again, I know very little about pontoon cats, but from the not-so-serious experiment in thread 6956, I seem to remember that the rule of thumb was that to avoid the pontoon effect, each of two lateral pontoons should have enough buoyancy to bear the load of the entire vessel (+ 13 m/s side-wind smile). Guess that means you will use bigger pontoons than I considered for the smaller sketch. The DIY part would certainly be easier with wood than welding steel - and maybe not that much more expensive? Except for the rusty containers I have seen in the dock, I know nothing about the steels used in freight containers, so I should probably keep my mouth shut, but what happens when you start welding?

Looking at your pontoon choice, I just found the 'KIRA' project linked. Not quite as big as yours, of course, but useful in the detailed description of the process with lots of tips and drawings that could have been made with SH3D. Also a very nice design. Recommended for anyone dreaming of a houseboat. Did not read the details, but looked at EIN ERSTER SCHRECK - interestingly he used the same two manufacturers mentioned previously and it confirms that your guys have bigger pontoons. Kira appears to be some 11m×4m (36') < 5 tons. Size of the pontoons quite large, engine looks like a Yamaha mid-range 30/40 with a low pitch alu prop. If the full specs for Kira were (are?) available, that should provide a good basis for other pontoon calculation (same hull constant and play with the other variables).

ok
[Aug 7, 2018 12:17:31 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UbuntuBirdy
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

You always repeat that I have done the math... no, I have not! This are only Ideas and only some minimal calculations were made, but it could absolutely be that all your fears about my construcions will come true!

But we have so many calm waterways with almost no current in Europe that most of your fears would disapear if you would experience them.
Of course, the pv and the wind turbines will not generate enough energy for constantly driving, but that's absolutely not the way we enjoy house boating on the European waterways. That means the boats have big batteries and these have to be recharged from time to time, by the pv, the wind turbines or by shore power at a marina.

I do not know if you have the same saying in english as we have in german: "Everybody said it will not work. Then someone came, he did not know that and did it." This is one of my credos and in my opinion, this is the only way to be and to stay innovative - you have to try the impossible!
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Pascal

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[Aug 7, 2018 1:19:08 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: who would like to live in a houseboat?

.. done the math... no, I have not...
Relieved to hear about the solid battery bank. Maybe I am a bit hung up in the numbers, but hulls, motorisation and propellers are hot topics in most marinas; and quite difficult unless you buy a standard package. And energy supply is relevant to SH3D and modern house-plans, even more so after this cold winter and hot summer.
..so many calm waterways with almost no current in Europe that most of your fears would disapear if you would experience them....
Oh, but I am relatively familiar with the inland waterways of Europe. Only not as crew (except on quiet canals in Holland and once in strong currents in the Orwell estuary). But I have sipped G&Ts on deck on quite a few canal- and riverboats. A family tradition started on the Nile many years ago smile. Hardly enough for an opinion on navigating waterways such as the Rhône, Donau which apparently can have currents of as much as 5 knots. But I have been curious after experiencing underpowered (displacement) boats in strong currents and wind.

All in favour of trying the impossible, and I really hope you get to realise your dream. But still think some maths, carefully assessing test results and expert opinions, a touch of caution and lots of reserve horsepower is good. A bit like SH3D house design in general. While amateurs can have brilliant ideas, create great designs and custom solutions, it is high-risk to try and build structures without professional advice.

ok
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