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richardm
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England
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Dimensions - sizing accurately

I am trying to set the centres on joists, using the mouse the distance (dimension) jumps up and down too much - 30 minutes to set three dimensions.
I am working in millimeters - have zoomed right in but finding some dimensions i.e. 41mm challenging.
Is there a facility to edit the dimensions by keyboard or right left key (as when moving an object to get better accuracy?)
If not could I request a feature?
Any help appreciated.
Also is there a search feature in the forum - can not find it !
[Oct 18, 2015, 3:01:01 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

Assuming you use some object (and not a wall) as a joist, did you try:
- Use Modify furniture (joist), set co-ordinates accurately for the first joist.
- Move joist, and while moving press CTRL+SHIFT to duplicate along a straight line.
- Repeat as many times as you need joists.
- Set the last joist co-ordinates accurately.
- Select all joists and use Furniture-Distribute horizontally (or vertically).
- Use Furniture-Group if you need to move later (or duplicate/rotate or whatever for a new wall).

Uploaded an example to SF 3d models 373:

joists_etc.sh3d

ok


[Oct 19, 2015, 10:07:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
richardm
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

Thanks for the advice, solved it by using external mouse rather than (finger board ?) thing.
The joists are existing so they dont follow the 40cm standard gap i.e. 40.5 41 41 39 40.5 etc etc. great fun.
Must admit I was also trying to set them at 40.5mm initially - well had been putting in loft door, steps etc.. so apologies - though its still a bit of a tedious routine - still perserverence wins out - mostly.
Again thanks for the reply
[Oct 19, 2015, 1:54:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

The point you are raising is interesting. Old houses can be a challenge. And your approach is good, get it right first time around. Good news is that working with accurate measurements in SH3D is pretty easy once you get used to it.

I usually distribute evenly first from a sensible starting point (typically co-ordinates 0,0 for the corner) and then modify the accurate position for each window, joist, door etc. Then double- and triple-check all measurements and angles on my initial plan. While the process can be a pain, getting it right does pay off later. But I have also cursed myself for putting too much effort into detail. Tricky balance.

Must have taken me an hour to find a lost 60mm in one corner of a basement. As it turns out, the foundation was not straight (while the construction on top was). Slightly less than one degree off, but enough to play havoc with my planning. But that little detail I am very glad I found out sooner rather than later.

Without the sort of meticulous planning you are doing, extra construction time is often the result. So it is usually worth the initial frustration. Good luck.

ok
[Oct 19, 2015, 2:34:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

..Must have taken me an hour to find a lost 60mm in one corner of a basement....
Some elaboration is in order. When working with an old house, this was initially the biggest pitfall when outlining a SH3D plan. Walls, corners are rarely as perfect in real life as in the plan. When redecorating the basement, it dawned on me that the room was not a perfect rectangle. A closer inspection on the outside eventually revealed why.

This was the point I missed. A foundation that was not perfectly aligned with the construction on top. Only goes to show the importance of good (initial) measurements. As you can see, new window (and fire escape), ventilation and frost-proof tap (with obligatory inspection hatch on inside wall) in place. Inside almost finished smile

ok


[Oct 19, 2015, 5:12:13 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
richardm
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

This house (bungalow) was built in 1964. The builder lived here until 6 years ago. Considering some of the properties I have worked in this one is pretty good, the roof structure would probably withstand a local nuke.
The kitchen however was originally an outhouse (no doubt to do with tax structures at the time. When looking at extending it found out it's single brick... lovely... costly... oh well.
I used to use 3D max to do what I'm now doing with SH3D far more features but upgrading when Windows went to 8 couldn't be justified.
SH3D is great, been using it for years on and off just some what I consider major features missing, but no doubt they will turn up in time.
[Oct 19, 2015, 7:26:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

..it's single brick...
Now, that I would have noticed at -30°C or less during winter... But then, outside drains wouldn't work here either smile

Our house is from the 50'ies. But somehow more skewed than the one I grew up in, which is 200 years older...

Point stands though, older houses will have angular oddities. Better measure up from the start.

ok
[Oct 19, 2015, 9:07:54 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
ElfenM
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

In American standards, using inches...

In older (Pre-1980) Homes, when you bought and used a 4in X 4in joist, it was 4in X 4in. Now, it is in measured reality 3.5in X 3.5in. This is because some engineering idiot (for lack of a better word) on this end decided on some hallucinated realization, that dry & wall board on the USA are about .5in and nailing one of these boards to the joists gave you the 4in thickness the design calls for because 3.5in + .5in = 4in.

Though this answered some problems with angle issues with connecting joists and wall, it also creates a weaker structure. Older homes tend to have oddities about them because the joists and wall connections are greater and stronger - one such issue is the foundation...

If a foundation of (lets say) 20ft X 20ft is made, in the old house the joists are created to line up with the foundation perfectly, but the walls on the joists stuck out by how much their thickness is, which can be as much as 4 or more inches in some cases. This what is shown in okh's picture as I see it. But modern houses have their walls flush with the foundation and the joists moved in to accommodate the difference. It is all on where one starts to take their measurements and where they line things up.

Just for fun, I created a couple of small Trailer (Cargo) Box homes, and their external dimensions are 8ft X 20ft (for a small shipping container). That does not mean that the space inside is 8ft X 20ft, as I soon realized. Its internal dimensions are something like 7ft 4in X 19ft X 4in, an 8in difference all around that makes each wall about 4in thick (I use insulated cargo boxes for my designs; non-insulated boxes have thinner walls).

It's a lot of work to figure things out but I can bet that this is the problem. Like I said before, it depends on where one begins their measurements and where it end. Different techniques were used over time, so one has to be aware of which ones are used.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.
[Oct 24, 2015, 7:46:50 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Dimensions - sizing accurately

Very true. Standard sizes not only changed over time, but come in local flavours. Which only goes to show that one needs to spend some time measuring up an old building.
..4in X 4in joist...
Funny thing is, that you can say 2×4 (to-tom-fire) here and people will understand that you mean a two-thumbs-[by]-four[-thumbs] construction material. I keep doing it myself, but it is silly. Not only have we been metric since 1887, but the local inch (tomme=thumb) was 26,1 mm - not the English 25,4 mm. So as you say, no wonder the odd wall is a bit off-angle... ok
[Oct 25, 2015, 8:01:40 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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