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GaudiGalopin3324
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rose Experiments with glass

Hi. I've done some research, and I want to share it with you. I must say right away that the results are not very clear to me, I still need to figure it out. But I realized something. I decided to study the straight shapes that make up the glass models. These are shower enclosures, glass in the windows, various straight vases and aquariums. All these parts of the models can be made by yourself using SH3D. Glass can be created in two ways - using walls (there is a ready-made transparency tool in SH3D) and using boxes. I decided to explore only the MTL file to understand the intricacies of the settings. And I did not use the tool for creating transparent walls as models, which is offered in SH3D, so as not to get confused in the conclusions. So, I decided to study the two main parameters of glass - the transparency coefficient "d" and the optical refraction coefficient "Ni". The other parameters seemed secondary to me and I did not study them at all in this experiment. I created a box and a wall, exported both forms to OBJ and started changing the "d" parameter (added it to all groups in the MTL file), from 0.1 to 0.9. Imported back all nine variants as models. I prepared a colorful colorful polygon and placed all these models in a row. On the left is a row with the assigned COLOR, on the right is exactly the same color, but the TEXTURE of the color. As a result, the version closest to the viewer was the most transparent (d 0.1), the one farthest from the viewer was the most opaque (d 0.9).



I set the Ni coefficient for all models as the initial "1". It can be changed from 1 to 10. What did I understand? The fact that for models with assigned COLOR, there is absolutely no difference in the various transparency parameters "d". All the samples are exactly the same. Everything looks transparent and everything looks like ordinary transparent glass. This is very interesting and important. But if you assign a color TEXTURE (a number of models on the right), then there is a strong difference in the transparency of the samples, and this option is more like frosted glass. I did two experiments - models from boxes and repeated the second render from models from the walls. The "d" parameters in the MTL file are the same everywhere. The loading time turned out to be exactly the same, second per second! And the appearance of the render is also exactly the same. The wall model is more convenient to work with, because there is only one group in the MTL file, there are six such groups in the model out of the box, it takes a little longer to change the parameters.
Next, I will answer separately, so as not to get confused in the Google translation, sorry))
[Sep 25, 2024, 7:48:11 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GaudiGalopin3324
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Re: Experiments with glass

I made a model of an aquarium, the walls of former boxes 0.1 Ni1.5. I am sure that for thin-shaped products, the Ni coefficient is not important. It turns out to be just transparent glass, if you assign a COLOR. I noticed that for such transparent glass models it is important not to glue the surfaces together. Otherwise, unpleasant grains and sparkling ripples appear (sometimes, not everywhere). How to fix it? You need to turn on the magnet, glue the four walls, and align the Model with a tool in the column. Then select all four walls and reduce everything by 1 mm. Group the result again so as not to accidentally shift it. For the viewer, such a change in the size of the aquarium walls is imperceptible, but a tiny gap appears between the shapes, now there is no grain anywhere. Inside the aquarium, I placed the "water" from the former box with the parameters MTLd 0.1 and Ni 1.1. I precisely inserted it into the center, aligned it and again slightly reduced the size by 2 mm to get a microscopic gap between the water and the walls. I inserted an image of a fish on a transparent background inside the water, placed it on a thin box, and made the other sides invisible. The fish should have overhead lighting in the photo so that it looks truthful and impressive. I put one hemisphere inside the water, and several weak hemispheres outside the aquarium to illuminate the entire scene. I must say right away that in the 3D view, the fish is in the center of the aquarium, and the offsets begin on the render. Because the important parameter of optical refraction Ni comes into play. Next, I will talk about him.
The scene looks like this, a fish in the center of the aquarium, the image on the box is perpendicular to the viewer's line of sight.


[Sep 25, 2024, 8:16:18 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GaudiGalopin3324
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Re: Experiments with glass

the first render with parameters Ni 1.1 d 0.1, color for all glass parts, including water. It can be seen that the fish began to shift, additional images appeared and a lot of reflections. I guarantee that it is impossible to predict the final image. It is important to understand the principle of operation of Ni. I have made several such renderers with a smooth Ni change.


[Sep 25, 2024, 8:32:46 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GaudiGalopin3324
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Re: Experiments with glass

I liked the muddy water effect that comes from assigning texture instead of color. I assigned this texture to the water. Muddy water is similar to real water in nature, there is always a slightly opaque environment, the same in giant aquariums. There is almost no completely transparent water. But it's very interesting!! The Ni parameter completely stopped working when the model has a texture assigned. Now the fish is again without distortion. It hangs as if in a fog, not in the water. Remember this effect, it is very important for realism. Through the aquarium, you can now see the background with the figures of people without displacement, before everything was greatly distorted (when there was COLOR). The hemisphere inside illuminates the inside of the wall of the water box, in order to get a visible upper horizontal cloudy surface, I placed another flat hemisphere above the water. Otherwise, this surface will not exist!


[Sep 25, 2024, 8:43:44 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GaudiGalopin3324
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Re: Experiments with glass

Next, I will show several renderers with a smooth increase in the Ni parameter. The general pattern is that the image of the fish begins to turn out, unfold more strongly, the greater the Ni, the stronger the distortion, the more the reflections move apart. But I don't understand what the true final image is. It's all kind of weird anyway. I'm not sure that there will be anything similar in reality. But you can choose a beautiful angle number 4, for example, and not get upset)))








[Sep 25, 2024, 9:00:24 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GaudiGalopin3324
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Re: Experiments with glass

But how do you make muddy water, not fog? There is a way!! You need to connect two boxes, one with a transparent version (COLOR), the second is 2 mm smaller in width and depth (TEXTURE), this "cloudy" inner box needs to be raised 1 mm higher than the transparent one. Then these surfaces will not stick together and there will be maximum quality. Now the fish is with optical distortions and in muddy water. I chose Ni 2.0.


[Sep 25, 2024, 9:10:34 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
Keet
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Re: Experiments with glass

I don't render much so I never realized that you only see differences in d values in the 3Dview, not in photo renderings. That is strange but the result is nice clear glass when using a color. Problem solved!

Much, much more important for me is you figured out FOG! I have been searching for months to create fog in a 3D space. Not a semi-transparnt texture on a flat surface but filling a room. I wanted it to simulate hot water vapor in a shower. Now I know how! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
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[Sep 26, 2024, 8:32:49 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
GaudiGalopin3324
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Re: Experiments with glass

Dear Keet, here we disagree in our interests). It is rendering that I am interested in. The fog can be seen exactly there, in 3D form nothing is particularly visible, there is no haze effect.. And it is also difficult to get the desired effect in the render. There are difficulties everywhere.. As I understand it, with the assignment of the texture, the box becomes just a set of six surfaces. If you assign a color, the box turns into a monolithic shape with optical fractures. Therefore, the texture on the box is the same flat textures, only on six faces. I made a trial render with a shower stall to look at the haze effect. I inserted a slightly smaller box with d 0.1 inside. At full height, from the shower tray to the ceiling. Assigned a white texture. Yes, the contrast of the mosaic there has clearly softened, there is a more contrasting mosaic next to the sink. But in general, not exactly what was expected. There is no wow effect. For now, you need to put on strong glasses, strain all your imagination and creative imagination)))). Only then is this weak steam effect visible in the shower area)). I tried another way, it's stronger and more correct. I made a set of thin transparent boxes d 0.01, glued them into a monolith, removed the five invisible sides of the box, left only the front ones with texture. So far, it is the fog that turns out - it is almost transparent closer to the viewer, further into the depth of space the fog increases. All the lights began to appear in the space of the room, as well as in the real fog and smoke. BUT THE RENDERING TIME IS monstrous.. sad I do not yet know what to do to make sure that there is a real benefit from all this research..




[Sep 26, 2024, 2:54:11 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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