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Print at Dec 19, 2025, 11:40:08 AM

Posted by harbinger at Apr 22, 2014, 2:22:31 AM

3D models specifications?
Want to create my models and i've searched the forum for the specs, but i can't seem to find what i need to know. I notice when i convert models (specifically from .blend and .3ds files) to OBJ/MAT files, the lights don't always have light sources and the models sometimes have trouble importing correctly.

What are the specifications of the 3D models that can be imported?

For example, when converting to a readable format, does the camera need to be given & included? Can more than one light source be included in the OBJ file? How must transparent (full or partial) glass be readied for conversion?

What files must be present when importing 3DS (which i often have to convert to OBJ because it won't bring in the model's textures)?

I'm also interested int he best modeling software that can be make models most easily convertible for SH3D.

A link would be helpful if the question has been answered....

(BTW, I use Blender, DeleD, Gmax, and Inkscape to construct 3D models.)

Posted by okh at Apr 22, 2014, 10:58:36 AM

Re: 3D models specifications?
Your question would require quite a long answer. General specs of the different formats, you can find many places online. Usually the files needed will contain the geometry and additional colour & texture files. (For transparency in .obj format, you could test different renderings with a combination of transparent graphic file and transparency in the .mtl file - see this thread and this thread).

As for the SH3D specifics you may want to have a look at the FurnitureLibraryEditor (see download page) which will allow you to supply additional model information.

For instance: .obj (and other import) files do not support some more advanced features like window/door cut-out, but this can be added with the FurnitureLibraryEditor. If you need light sources in the model and other advanced properties, you may just need to dive a little deeper into the file specifications (see Sourceforge docs).

An SVG mini-manual - specially from page 9 on - may possibly also give you a hint or two on how to add extra (SH3D specific) qualities to your models.

As for the camera / light you use in your 3D modelling software to produce a rendering, I guess you will need to substitute with light sources and view angles in SH3D - or am I misunderstanding what you are trying to do?

Best modelling software? What you feel most comfortable with smile

Blender is very good software once you get used to it. Art of Illusion or Sketchup are simpler...

ok

PS I am curious as to how you use Inkscape for your 3D modelling. Sometimes it could be useful to start a model based on a 2D SVG sketch.

Posted by harbinger at Apr 23, 2014, 10:43:30 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
I probably should have asked a different way....

Sometimes conversions to OBJ/MTL and work and sometimes they don't, and it doesn't matter what format I convert from. If I begin creating/converting my own models, what can I NOT do? What will prevent a model from being loaded either into SH3d or the Furniture Importer?

BTW, I have just started using Inkscape, but it's not good when you need exact measurements. I understand you can create SVG images with Inkscape, convert to 3D (probably with Extrude), then convert these models in the Furniture Importer. I've studied the SVG docs you mentioned already, and I still don't understand how to apply the SVG instructions on a 3d model (which 'face' do the commands work on -- top? front?).

I can say this -- my artistic nature is very fickle, and I go from one project to another if there's no easy way to get done what I want done. I need to create 3D models for this and other projects, so I'm still looking for the most intuitive modeling program I can find. Blender is WAY too complicated (I'm still at the bottom end of its learning curve), Gmax won't export to model types I can use, DeleD is simple but non-intuitive. I'm going to try out Deep Exploration, and then give Art of Illusion a try.

But still I'm interested what SH3D has trouble with when importing 3D models...

Posted by hansmex at Apr 24, 2014, 1:36:08 AM

Re: 3D models specifications?
Nath,

The problem with the OBJ "language" is twofold. On the one hand SH3D doesn't support all of its features. On the other hand there is the problem of its many "dialects". Many programs seem to have their own way of saving, exporting or converting to/in that format, thereby creating a kind of babylonian confusion.

I have tried several programs to do a bit of 3D designing, and my choice would be Sketchup. It's not overly difficult to learn and its DAE format can be easily imported in SH3D. Only problem is that you have to export the files with both faces applied, otherwise SH3D has a problem on which face to apply textures.

Hans
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Hans

new website - under constuction
hansdirkse.info

Posted by okh at Apr 25, 2014, 12:15:07 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?

I've studied the SVG docs you mentioned already, and I still don't understand how to apply the SVG instructions on a 3d model (which 'face' do the commands work on -- top? front?).

SVG is used for customised cut-outs in walls (windows/doors) and ceilings/floors (staircases). So the staircase cut-out in FurnitureLibraryEditor applies to the top surface, and the window/door cut-out applies to the front/back surfaces (that aligns with the wall), as the model appears when imported. (You can also adjust how far the door/window protrudes on each side of the wall, but for that you will need to "text-edit" the .properties file.) That means you can also use SVG for other specialised designs such as vents, in-wall aquariums, chimneys etc. But mostly recent versions of SH3D will take care of most cut-out needs automatically - eg. if you need a skylight in a flat roof (but the protruding vent needs special editing).

But still I'm interested what SH3D has trouble with when importing 3D models...

Just to confirm Hansmex' comment: While I hardly ever experience problems with clean, well designed models, it is true that models occasionally can be troublesome. However, my impression is that if import to SH3D does not work, the same model also will have problems when imported to other software. In these cases, I would abandon the model. OR if I really wanted that model I would use (e.g.) Blender to remove the strange elements. But if anyone has identified specific format problems that are troublesome when importing, that would be interesting to know about (specifically whether there are valid .obj features that are not supported by the importer).

ok

Posted by harbinger at Apr 25, 2014, 11:55:23 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
Thanx for the info.

Sketchup and 3Dtin seem OK but these are online apps and i'm not on the internet at home, so those are out...

I like working with AoI because the learning curve is slightly less steeper. I was able to easily construct a painting lamp in the first few hrs of trying it out, including materials, textures, and lights.
The lights is what's causing the problems. Does SH3D not import OBJ lights? I'd like to be able to import lamps with their own light sources if possible. Is there a better format for that?

Posted by okh at Apr 27, 2014, 2:30:56 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
Sketchup is downloadable and can be run off-line. If you want SH3D light sources as part of imported (.obj) models, you need to add that to the .properties file (see ref doc above). But the easy solution is to add the light-sources separately from the collection of light-sources that come with SH3D (and group them if you need to move them together).

ok

Posted by Puybaret at Apr 27, 2014, 2:43:10 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?

Sketchup and 3Dtin seem OK but these are online apps

Sketchup isn't an online application.

Does SH3D not import OBJ lights?

Even if Sweet Home 3D doesn't recognize everything in the OBJ file format, I'm not aware this format supports lights. If you want your 3D model to contain one or more light, you have to include it in a .sh3f furniture library file and specify the properties dedicated to light in the PluginFurnitureCatalog.properties text file contained in a .sh3f (zipped) file.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by harbinger at Apr 30, 2014, 10:57:42 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
How do i extract or edit the .properties text file? I'd love to add lights this way.

Posted by Puybaret at Apr 30, 2014, 11:41:08 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
A .sh3f file is actually a zip file. So either you extract it with a zip utility or you rename .sh3f extension to .zip, extract the .properties file, edit it with a text editor, rezip everything and change back the extension to .sh3f.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by harbinger at May 1, 2014, 12:33:49 AM

Re: 3D models specifications?
Actually, i look again in the SVG mini-manual that "okh" linked to, and i found the section on editing the properties text files, and it says the sh3f file is a zipped archive but it doesn't explain how to extract files. Do we just use 7Zip for this?

Posted by Puybaret at May 1, 2014, 1:40:15 AM

Re: 3D models specifications?

Do we just use 7Zip for this?

Yes if you have that tool.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by okh at May 1, 2014, 11:15:21 AM

Re: 3D models specifications?
An exact description of how to open a compressed library, extract the file, edit it and copy it back into the library, is almost impossible. It will depend on your system, configuration and tools available. But the general approach would go something like this:
- Open the compressed library, *.sh3f, file with some zip tool
(you may have to rename the file to *.zip temporarily)
- Copy the *.properties file out of the library
- Edit the copy with a text editor to add/change properties.
- Copy the edited *.properties file back into the compressed library.
- (rename the compressed library back to *.sh3f)
- In SH3D, use Import Furniture Library.

But even such a general description may not be of too much use unless you already have some familiarity with how your file system works. In which case you probably don't need the description...

ok

PS Puybaret - I think a way of opening the "raw" .propeties file with/from the FurnitureLibraryEditor might be of help to some (I would use it), but whether it is worth the trouble (or makes sense) from development point of view, I really don't know. (And you would probably need a file back-up and restore procedure for small mishaps smile

)

Posted by harbinger at May 1, 2014, 7:31:46 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
That's what i tried -- i used 7zip to extract just the .properties file, which worked, and i made my edits (watching the syntax very carefully). When i tried to add it back into the file, i got am error message that read something like "Could not allocate memory." (I'm using Windows XP.)
So i re-did the extension to .zip, extracted everything in the whole sh3f with 7Zip into a separate folder, replaced the properties file with the edited one, and re-zipped it. Then i changed the extension back to .sh3f. I tried opening it with the FLE and it took a minute, but it wouldn't load the file, obviously because the compression was wrong or something...

Instead of having to edit this file directly, it would be better if we amped up the FLE features so we can add lights, etc, and edit the properties within a program. That way we don't have to be geeks that must know how to edit raw files. (I have a lot of lighting fixtures that i'd rather have lights installed in them; i'd like to avoid adding those invisible light sources.)

Posted by Puybaret at May 1, 2014, 10:58:32 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
I guess that 7zip compression algorithm is by default LZMA and not Deflate (the one of ZIP format). Either you find in 7zip how to change the algorithm, or use the other method that will uncompress/compress with the default ZIP utility available in all systems nowadays.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by harbinger at May 2, 2014, 7:56:39 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
I tried the Deflate algorithm (there was also a "Deflate64") but i could tell it wouldn't work because the resulting file size was way off. When i tried loading the .sh3f file, it wouldn't read it.

A tutorial by anyone who's had success in editing the zipped files would be helpful, even if you don't have accompanying graphics...

Posted by okh at May 2, 2014, 9:06:56 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
I thought XP opened zip files directly (provided you have the right file association)? Did you try to rename your library to .zip and open? You would then need to copy the file out of the zipped directory and copy it back in after editing (Win will open files in a zipped directory based on a temporary copy, but dos not move the changed copy back into the compressed file). ok

Posted by harbinger at May 3, 2014, 9:48:02 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
OK. What association do i need to make?
I did rename the sh3f extension to zip (because that's the only way 7Zip would apply its contextual menu to it). I then extracted opened the file directly from 7Zip, edited it, then when i tried to re-insert it, that's when the allocation memory error came up.

Any other clues?

Posted by Puybaret at May 4, 2014, 12:22:59 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
What system do you run?
If you use Windows, simply use Extract all menu item found in the contextual menu of any zip file.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D creator

Posted by harbinger at May 10, 2014, 11:31:12 PM

Re: 3D models specifications?
I was able to figure out how to get Windows to use its own archive methods to get into the .properties file.

As okh mentioned, reset the .sh3d extension to .zip. (You'll get a warning but a low it anyway.) Then right-click on the file and choose "Open with..." and then "Windows Explorer". Windows will then treat it like a folder and make everything editable. You can then either open the .properties file of your choice there, or extract it to the desktop and open it with Notepad or some other text editor.

After your edits, then save it back into the .zip folder, close it (it will be recompressed), and reset the extension to .sh3d. In okh's tutorial, he did casually note that it may not always work, and I hope someone can figure out how to make it work all the time (assuming of course the syntax is right).

For my case, the edit I made on the one fixture (I added a light source to a lamp) didn't work, because when the FLE listed all the fixtures, it read everything but simply ignored that entry, not even displaying the icon. I checked the syntax carefully and I didn't see a mistake.

Posted by okh at May 11, 2014, 11:41:46 AM

Re: 3D models specifications?
It does seem you have it about right. If the other models works, it seems the zipping/unzipping bit worked. Ignored entries in .sh3f indicates an error in that entry, for instance a wrong character (./,), numeric identifier, or something. Why not post the entry? ok

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