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UKenGB
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Heights and elevations

I'm very new to SH3D and trying to get my head around the various heights, levels and elevations and how they add up. Is there a simple diagram that shows how they all 'stack up'?

So, what is the thickness of the floor? Does the elevation of a level start at the upper surface of a floor, or does the floor 'fill up' the level from its base elevation?

Are walls drawn from the elevation of their level, or on top of the floor?

What about ceilings? Do they have any thickness?

E.g. I have an outside door in a wall. From where is its elevation calculated? From the bottom of that level, or from the floor above that?

That also leads on to doors and windows. When specifying the width, is that the width of the actual door/window, or the opening in the wall?

I cannot find any clear documentation about these issues so would really appreciate some info from those more experience.
[Jul 22, 2016, 2:05:15 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
HawkDawg
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Re: Heights and elevations

So, what is the thickness of the floor? Does the elevation of a level start at the upper surface of a floor, or does the floor 'fill up' the level from its base elevation?

Floors are added to the height setting of the level. In other words, if you set the height of the level at 8' and the floor thickness at 4" , the total height of the level is 8'4", with the 4" at sub-level.

Are walls drawn from the elevation of their level, or on top of the floor?

Walls are built on top of the floor.

What about ceilings? Do they have any thickness?

Ceilings are one sided so there is no thickness to them. Just a one sided poly.

E.g. I have an outside door in a wall. From where is its elevation calculated? From the bottom of that level, or from the floor above that?

Door and window heights are set from the top of the floor. The floor is actuall below level.

That also leads on to doors and windows. When specifying the width, is that the width of the actual door/window, or the opening in the wall?

Do you mean the depth/thickness of the doors and windows?
The default doors are 3' wide, 11 5/8" thick and 7' tall.
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Hawk
[Jul 23, 2016, 10:39:55 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UKenGB
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Re: Heights and elevations

All good information and now need to digest it.

So, what is the thickness of the floor? Does the elevation of a level start at the upper surface of a floor, or does the floor 'fill up' the level from its base elevation?

Floors are added to the height setting of the level. In other words, if you set the height of the level at 8' and the floor thickness at 4" , the total height of the level is 8'4", with the 4" at sub-level.

Ok, I think I got that.

Are walls drawn from the elevation of their level, or on top of the floor?

Walls are built on top of the floor.

OK.

What about ceilings? Do they have any thickness?

Ceilings are one sided so there is no thickness to them. Just a one sided poly.

Ok, that's clear.

E.g. I have an outside door in a wall. From where is its elevation calculated? From the bottom of that level, or from the floor above that?

Door and window heights are set from the top of the floor. The floor is actuall below level.

I tried some tests. I had the walls set and placed a table in the middle. I thought increasing the floor height would raise the table, but it didn't, which I can now understand. But there seemed to be no change at all, yet the table and walls of that level should have moved up with increasing floor thickness, which I didn't notice. I'll try it again with a (slightly) lower level also displayed as then I should see the one level move higher with increasing floor thickness, compared to the other, slightly lower level, yes?

So if everything sits on top of the floor, what's the point of being able to set the thickness of the floor.

For the ground floor of a house with e.g. everything built on a concrete base say 150mm thick. I could set the elevation of that level to 0 and the floor thickness to .15m, but can I see the edge of the floor? And how can I create outside the house since everything will be 150mm above the bottom of that level? Or is this a case for another level at the same elevation, but with 0 floor thickness?

That also leads on to doors and windows. When specifying the width, is that the width of the actual door/window, or the opening in the wall?

Do you mean the depth/thickness of the doors and windows?
The default doors are 3' wide, 11 5/8" thick and 7' tall.

I meant the width of the door/window as we would think of it, but in SH3D terms I guess that's the length. I think it corresponds to the length/width of the opening in the wall, inside which is the frame and the actual door or window, but confirmation of that would help.
[Jul 23, 2016, 12:00:37 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
HawkDawg
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Re: Heights and elevations

I think this will help explain the width of doors and windows.

This is a default door set at 3' wide.



Here's that box set at 3' wide in front of the door.



The width and height includes the frame of the door and/or window.
Does that help?

Increasing floor thickness would add to the bottom of the floor, not the top. Hence adding thickness to a floor will not raise furniture sitting on it, nor will it raise the walls.
The point of setting the thickness of a floor would become apparent when you create a second level/story or a level set at sub-level, like a basement.
You would have to allow for the thickness of the floor when creating other levels.

I guess my previous door dimensions should have read 3' width, 11 5/8" depth, and 7' height.
There is no length.
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Hawk
[Jul 23, 2016, 8:40:17 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UKenGB
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Re: Heights and elevations

Thanks for that Hawk, the width is as I surmised, but good to have confirmation.

While on the subject of doors and windows though, what does the 'keep proportions' checkbox do? Doesn't seem to make any difference and is unset when I check again. I thought it meant maintain the same ratios, but I tried it with the cylinder and could still drag the circle into an ellipse so looks like I'm not right about that.

What should one do about a threshold for a door? They don't seem to include one, but external doors really need one. Is there some standard way to add one that I'm missing?

Another problem I'm having with doors is the side on which they are hung. They flip between opening in or opening out, but always also hinge on that side. I want a door that opens in, but is hung on the outer edge of the wall. Is this something that can be set, or do I need to choose a different door object?

Also I'm using a window object that has large sill projections that protrude a long way out of the walls if I allow the object to snap-to the wall. Is this adjustable without manually reducing the depth of the window to less than that of the wall, or again, should I just find a different window object?
[Jul 24, 2016, 9:37:50 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
HawkDawg
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Re: Heights and elevations

While on the subject of doors and windows though, what does the 'keep proportions' checkbox do? Doesn't seem to make any difference and is unset when I check again. I thought it meant maintain the same ratios, but I tried it with the cylinder and could still drag the circle into an ellipse so looks like I'm not right about that.

The 'Keep Proportions' check box only applies when making changes to to one of the dimensions in the 'Modify furniture' window.

What should one do about a threshold for a door? They don't seem to include one, but external doors really need one. Is there some standard way to add one that I'm missing?

Find a different door model with a threshold built in. wink

Another problem I'm having with doors is the side on which they are hung. They flip between opening in or opening out, but always also hinge on that side. I want a door that opens in, but is hung on the outer edge of the wall. Is this something that can be set, or do I need to choose a different door object?

In the 'Modify furniture' window, check the box that says 'Mirror shape'.

Also I'm using a window object that has large sill projections that protrude a long way out of the walls if I allow the object to snap-to the wall. Is this adjustable without manually reducing the depth of the window to less than that of the wall, or again, should I just find a different window object?

I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at, but it sounds like what you want to do would require modifying the model in a 3D modelling program, or - as you say - find another window.
You could try adjusting the depth of the window (without a check mark in the 'Keep proportions' box) and see if you get desired results.

There's a lot of helpful information in the Help files for SH3D that covers some of the questions you've asked, as well as some possible future questions.
I recommend spending a little time reading through them. wink
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Hawk
[Jul 24, 2016, 10:15:28 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UKenGB
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Re: Heights and elevations

Another problem I'm having with doors is the side on which they are hung. They flip between opening in or opening out, but always also hinge on that side. I want a door that opens in, but is hung on the outer edge of the wall. Is this something that can be set, or do I need to choose a different door object?

In the 'Modify furniture' window, check the box that says 'Mirror shape'.

No, that flips the way the door opens, but doesn't change the side of the wall on which the hinges attach. As I said, I need a door which is hinged on the OUTER surface of the wall, but opens inwards. Mirroring doesn't change that. Is this perhaps something that cannot be modified for an existing object and so I need to find a different one. Like finding one with a threshold, it's not easy to see these detail features until you actually try and use the object.

There's a lot of helpful information in the Help files for SH3D that covers some of the questions you've asked, as well as some possible future questions.
I recommend spending a little time reading through them. wink

Ah how simple that sounds. If only it were true. Read everything I could before ever asking anything here. The help files and tips etc are limited to the basics and fail to fully explain the details. Hence my questions here.

Thanks anyway.
[Jul 24, 2016, 12:47:03 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
UKenGB
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Re: Heights and elevations

On the subject of thresholds, none of the supplied doors appear to include a threshold, hence my question. Perhaps someone could point me to an external front door that does.
[Jul 24, 2016, 12:52:10 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
HawkDawg
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Re: Heights and elevations

Have you looked at some of the doors at the external links on the 3D Models page of this site, down near the bottom?
In particular, Trimble 3D Warehouse & Archive3D.

Not all models at those sites will work in SH3D but some of them will.
I've used a few models from Archive3D but none from Trimble.
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Hawk
[Jul 24, 2016, 3:39:30 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
okh
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Re: Heights and elevations

..none of the supplied doors appear to include a threshold...
You may also want to check the supplementary door models in the Search free 3D models page - as well as some of the user door models in the SourceForge repository .

At least 4/6 in SF 3D models 334 come with thresholds - post also shows how to use separate door and frame: to hide/display door, and to avoid that the door distorts when used in a thick or thin wall.

ok

door_frames_doors.sh3d

[Jul 24, 2016, 4:36:56 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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