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hansmex
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Tobias,

1 - Split wall --> Join walls
What I would like here, is in fact a kind of Undo for the Split wall function. It should (re-)connect two parts of a straight wall.

2 - I am in the process of writing a tutorial for all plug-ins. This is an image I made to illustrate the behaviour of the Connect walls function as it behaves now.

EDIT
Only now do I see there's a small mistake in the picture: the walls were drawn in this order: red-blue-white (in the picture it says red-white-blue; being Dutch makes it difficult to change the order of some colours...). I chose an example with three walls to better illustrate the behaviour of the function.

Here is the correct picture.



END EDIT

I made a new image that better shows what I would like. First it shows current behaviour: an open room can be closed, correcting a "mistake" that often happens. The second part of the image shows something that might be a useful new function.

EDIT 2
I think this could be implemented by asking "Wall 1: Connect end point or start point?" and then "Wall 2: Connect end point or start point?"
END EDIT 2



There is a variation on the second example: joining walls in a T-junction or a Y-junction, although its use would be more limited.

I hope this clarifies what I meant.

Hans
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by hansmex at Oct 4, 2010 12:11:47 PM]
[Oct 4, 2010 11:06:26 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
starrunner
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Hi Hans,

for the "Join walls" function - I could write that action, for sure. But I'll wait until Emmanuel moves the wall actions into their own menu - as you already mentioned in the 3.0 thread, the menu is quite huge, right now. And as long as you can achieve the described behaviour with small effort (in the way I mentioned it), I think its not that important.

To the images: The "connect walls" action has nothing to do with the order the walls were drawn (as long as you select one by one): It connects the endpoint of first selected wall with the startpoint of the second selected wall. To achieve the desired behaviour of your last example, select the walls in the right order and reverse the walls before the action if necessary.
[Oct 4, 2010 12:06:24 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
hansmex
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Tobias,

First of all, as I'm writing this tutorial I want to thoroughly understand how each plug-in and each function works. I'm pretty sure other users may have similar questions. Or am I the only stupid guy here? So I'm not trying to annoy you, just wanting to understand the details.

Also, I edited my last post: I corrected the picture and added some text.

After reading your last post, I followed your instructions and reversed wall direction. Now I can join two walls, more or less in the way I want. Wow!

Nevertheless, it's a bit of a hassle. Would it be possible to change the plug-in in such a way that we can point at the end points of the lines we want to connect? Like: the first end point clicked connects to the second end point clicked. That way the plug-in would work much more intuitively.

One further request: in the current behaviour the walls are connected by moving one wall. Ideally it would also be possible to connect walls by stretching or extending them, as shown in the image below. Each option has its advantages, so I think (f you agree) that the current behaviour should be kept, and the "new" behaviour should be added, maybe with a dialogue box asking "Move or stretch?"



EDIT
This is a more complete "visual description" of the current behaviour of this plug-in.



END EDIT


Hans
----------------------------------------
[Edit 1 times, last edit by hansmex at Oct 4, 2010 1:31:00 PM]
[Oct 4, 2010 12:41:34 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
starrunner
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Hi Hans,

I'm developing software since many years - I know that users don't understand the intention (and power) of some functions at first, so don't hesitate to ask...

Currently a plugin has not the possibility to interact with the user interface of SH3D (at least not officially), thus I could show a dialog where you select the points to connect, but I can't let the user select the points on the plan, neither can I visualize that point in the plan. I think I implement the dialog in the next version of the plugin, that way I could show a notification when there is a previous connection that would be removed, too (as there is always only one for each start/endpoint).

Btw. I don't move the wall, I just move the end points - if you look at your upper image, you'll notice that the upper wall is stretched there. The lower image you can achieve by reversing the direction of both walls and selecting the lower wall first. Maybe you should display the direction of the walls in your tutorial (by selecting them before taking the screen shots).
[Oct 4, 2010 1:28:21 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
hansmex
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Tobias,

I keep learning... :-)

Maybe a pop-up window as in the Edit room points dialogue could help? Can you create user interaction there? Or maybe show all available connection possibilities (as an image on a large button?) and let people choose?

Hans
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babygenius55
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Hans brings up some very good points, and while i would like to see these as well, I must ask if this would confuse/muddle vertex placement of the model. Rather I would like to ask that if you do decide to put these changes in could you please keep the placement or any new vertices in the model in mind. Google sketchup is a very nice program, but upon export the models tend to break down(for lack of a better term) when it's time to render in outside programs. This program is great. i may have spoken too soon as I have yet to purposely try to create any non-manifold geometry.
[Jul 17, 2011 6:44:36 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
babygenius55
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Hmmm, the last portion of my previous post doesn't read quite right. Edit:I may have spoken too soon about the programs ability to export clean geometry while using you plugin in ways not foreseen.
[Jul 17, 2011 6:48:06 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message    Hidden to Guest [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
starrunner
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

Edward,

I don't understand, what my plugin has to do with "vertex placement in the model" or the Google Sketchup Export?
[Jul 18, 2011 2:52:38 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
kbon
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

While reading this thread, I had the same idea Hans mentioned in his last post. After selecting walls and hit the "connect" button, a simple popup with i.e. four buttons would be sufficient. Those buttons could look like
"E1 => S2" , "E1 <= S2",
"E2 => S1" , "E2 <= S1" (just example, with E as "End" and S as "Start").
Maybe with a little graphic on top showing two walls and descriptions of their edges. At the first usage, one would need to look a at graphic and buttons to figure it out, but then it should be easy.
And it shouldn't require much change of code (except the dialog box), just defining the two edges and their order by the buttons before connecting the walls.

In that dialog one could also add more buttons, i.e. to connect the extensions of walls.
Lets say I have a wall from (0;0)->(2;0) and (4;4)->(4;1). These intersect at (4;0), which is where I want them to connect. This is a simple example, but imagine two wall-edges very close to each other and maybe even overlapping. Simply connecting them would rotate wall a little to be able to connect to the other wall's edge, thus requiring readjustment afterwards to make them intersect at the same angle they as before.
Computation of intersection of two straight lines is an easy mathematical task, also considering those two to be parallel (in which case there would be no intersection and the button could i.e. be disabled).


Another suggestion is to enable wall thickness adjustment in both directions in the "resize" option (the disabled Y-field for walls). That's also simple mathematical or geometrical (if lines are not perpendicular) calculation. Wall thickness could then be extended in one direction, without "messing up" everything else on the other side of the wall (i.e. I have a complete house, but then decide to use thicker insulation on the outside -> I could easily expand wall thickness to outside direction without having to readjust wall edges as it was the case before when wall thickness was extended in both directions).

I was about to create a plugin with the wall-thickness-adjustmend option myself, but even after reading the plugin-tutorial I'd need a while to read into Java. Besides, we already have this nice plugin, it would be nicer to extend this one rather than creating a new plugin.
I think I'll give it a try, don't know if this plugin is still in development.
[Aug 7, 2012 1:15:16 PM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
starrunner
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Re: New plugin: Advanced plan editing

While the plugin is currently not in "active" development, I'm still able to add changes when needed - if it takes not to much time. So if for example you add (write) some missing features, I could integrate those.

I haven't created the mentioned dialog for connecting walls, because it worked for me the way it is now as I just invert walls where necessary and it is difficult to come up with a comprehensible solution if more than two walls are selected (which is possible) - if you have one, feel free to implement it and send me the code.

The idea of connection on the intersection point is nice, but would need either the the dialog first or another menu item.

I don't think that adjusting the wall thickness has something to do with the resize dialog, at least not in the way you describe it. The resize operation "moves" every point relative to the selected position. That means a wall closer to that position would gain less thickness - your idea would only work for a rectangular connection of four walls. Next problem: your example calls a wall "outside", but a wall has only left and right. Calculating which one is on the inside and which one on the outside is not that easy (especially if you select walls which are not forming a closed figure).

So all in all you would need a new action called "change wall thickness" which opens a dialog where you can select the direction (left/right) and the amount (relative/absolute) of the modification.

By the way when you implement that functionality you will learn that the mathematical calculation is in most cases not the problem - it is the mapping into the object model and the creation of an intuitive UI. So a simple mathematical problem can lead to an extensive task for a software developer.
[Aug 8, 2012 12:03:54 AM] Show Printable Version of Post    View Member Profile    Send Private Message [Link] Report threatening or abusive post: please login first  Go to top 
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