Print at Jan 24, 2022, 11:20:30 PM
Posted by okh at Nov 18, 2015, 11:15:49 AM
Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
Grouping items that belong together is handy. Be it a door and frame, or different versions of a model. What would be nice, is if it were possible to check/uncheck visibility for items inside a group.

See thread 6333 as an example: Two different models (sofabed open and sofabed closed ) grouped together so they can be moved together. Only one should be visible at a time, but it does not seem possible to check/uncheck the visible boxes inside groups. (?) ok



Posted by Puybaret at Feb 12, 2016, 8:56:02 AM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
As reported during version 5 development, I didn't allow this feature to avoid a too complicated management of the size and elevation of a partially visible group.
But maybe, we could find a reasonable way to make it happen. After all, when you hide some parts of a piece of furniture with the invisible material setting added in the coming version 5.2, its size visually changes too, but not its bounding box in the plan and its size elsewhere in the program. Maybe we could similarly consider that the size of a group could include all the visible and invisible items it contains and resizing of a group would change also proportionally its invisible items. Just wonder how users could guess that a group contains some invisible items when they view such a group in the plan with a larger bounding box most of the time...
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer

Posted by mazoola at Feb 12, 2016, 9:10:02 AM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
Do users rely on the 2D/bounding box view for placement? It probably has to do with my using primarily imported or custom furniture objects (I have to be able to show my layout can be achieved with off-the-shelf items and/or meets our local, persnickety building codes), but I find myself positioning things in 3D as often as 2D. (I could probably make better use of magnetism than I do, as well.)

Posted by Puybaret at Feb 12, 2016, 2:13:15 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
The bounding box of an individual piece is used to select it, and the bounding box of pieces and groups is used to place objects along walls that depends on magnetism when it's active, and in other things like alignment menu items.
Maybe I could display invisible objects of a visible group with a surrounding box drawn with a very light gray? I'm going to see how it could look like.
And there are other things to consider: if you make all objects of a group invisible, should this group be automatically considered as invisible in the furniture list too (keep in mind that the group may be collapsed in the list)? When you toggle the visibility of a group itself, should it change the visibility of all its child objects too?

It's not a so easy subject! wink
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer

Posted by mazoola at Feb 12, 2016, 6:50:06 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
The translucent bounding box idea sounds promising -- although I'm not sue how it would work with a situation like the one OK mentions with the multiple states of a single item. Showing both visible and invisible group members sounds like it could be confusing, while showing only the visible ones doesn't answer the problem that started you down this path (i.e., possible confusion from bounding box larger than visible items).

I am definitely a supporter of being able to toggle visibility of objects in a group without having to explode the group. Personally, I think making the bounding box as large as its maximum possible size regardless of the visibility of objects contained shouldn't be too confusing. I also like the touch of having the group go invisible if all contents items go invisible.

Reluctantly, I'd have to say the inverse does not hold: Togging visibility on a group should leave its contents unchanged. This might seem illogical when toggling an all-invisible group to visibility at the group level, and I'd entertain an argument to toggle all group items on in this case only, but I'd prefer SH3D not change group member visibility at all.

Posted by Ceciliabr at Feb 20, 2016, 7:36:27 AM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
Unless I have misunderstood the problem:

I have solved this for my own part by using a transparent png to make objects invisible within a group. There are three options when you open the Modify-window, Color, Texture and Modify. Normally models have more than one color or texture, so we use the Modify-option for modifying. I'm simply using the Texture-option to make the whole model transparent. And I can change back at any time by selecting the Modify-option.

Posted by mazoola at Feb 21, 2016, 9:35:34 AM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
I hadn't thought of that -- I assume you're applying the texture to the entire model under 'Color and texture.' I can see two potential issues, though: First, you still have the problem Emmanuel is currently wrestling: Namely, the 2D bounding box is potentially larger than the maximum dimensions of all currently visible objects. (It's undoubtedly not a problem for you, since you're explicitly "invisible-ing" objects and would be aware of the disconnect.) Second, under some circumstances invisible textures aren't always invisible, as shown in this comment. But, with those caveats, your approach is definitely worth giving a try.

Posted by okh at Feb 21, 2016, 11:22:39 AM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
Using a transparent image, of course, works, but is just a bit to cumbersome. In practice I tend to use two levels - i.e. a new "same level" with an alternative view. On the primary level I put door frames and all the fixed furniture - a bare room if you like. On the misc-other-stuff level I put doors and other stuff that will clutter my visualisation of the room.

Or - I sometimes to get a visual impression use a semi-transparent texture. Can be good for planning.



Posted by Ceciliabr at Feb 21, 2016, 2:25:54 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
It might not be a very sophisticated solution, but what I have done is to a create a square (100 X 100) pixels in Photoshop, reduced the layer opacity to zero, and exported it as a png with transparency.
I have so far never seen any trace of an object after applying this texture to it.

Posted by okh at Feb 21, 2016, 2:40:25 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
I think the visible invisible objects may have to do with surfaces of the object. I still trying to figure out wrongly oriented normal, double surfaces and two sided exports, but most decent models (even with some formal errors) will vanish nicely in SH3D with an invisible texture (probably very similar to yours, only 64×64 - as, apparently, some Wavefront (.obj) implementations may run into trouble if the pixel size is not a multiplier of 2 - but now I am really out of my depth).

But just for the record - the picture of the sofabed was intended show the ghost fold-out (20% opacity) - easier to see whether there is enough space when planning. If I apply an invisible texture - my ghost bed also vanishes (at least from the 3D view).

ok

Posted by Ceciliabr at Feb 21, 2016, 10:46:03 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
I don't think I have fully grasped all the subtleties of the comment hierarchy here yet. My intention was to comment upon mazoolas reply to me, but for some reason I can't get my comments to be addressed to the right person.

Well...

Posted by hansmex at Feb 21, 2016, 11:16:46 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
@Cecilia
This comment is for you.

@okh
And guess who this is adressed to.
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Dual boot - AMD FX6300 6-core, 16GB ram
Windows 10 Pro, SH3D 6.2 with 8 GB memory allowance
Ubuntu 18.04, SH3D 6.2 with 2 GB memory allowance

Posted by mazoola at Feb 22, 2016, 8:02:21 AM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
@Ceciliabr

I have so far never seen any trace of an object after applying this texture to it.


Nor have I seen a 'visible invisible' texture after applying a fully transparent PNG as a material -- but some folks have. My guess is, as OK said, it has to do with SunFlow's handling of surfaces -- which, my recent experiments suggest,* is a surprisingly complicated topic.

My suspicion, though, is that it has less to do with calculation of surface normals than with glossiness; that is, I suspect a glossy invisible surface, besides being an oxymoron, would be more likely to display artifacts than a matte invisible surface. Applying an invisible texture to an entire object might also lead to different results than applying the same texture to individual components of the object.

All this is pure speculation, though, as I've not tested my hypotheses -- something I'll no doubt do the next time I have something far more important to put off doing. wink

Maz
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* I should note in passing it was your recent post that sent me down that particular rabbit hole. While for most of my life I made my living as a technologist of some stripe -- and even once contributed about half the pages to a book on programming in Pascal, available in English and German wherever painfully obsolete computer texts are found -- I'm actually an English baccalaureate whose last math or science class was in high school; I'm definitely, as the idiom has it, 'punching above my weight.'

Posted by Ceciliabr at Feb 22, 2016, 12:01:53 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
@hansmex

Of course... writing the address. Why didn't I think of that?

And the "quick reply"- button must be for people with great haste – but you still have to write the address – right?

I think I've got it now... :)

Posted by Bilfrost at Aug 16, 2021, 5:03:15 PM
Re: Toggle visibility INSIDE grouped items
Hi y'all. I know I am replying to an ancient thread here.... but have been struggling with this visibility issue for a while.

My particular situation:
- I have various objects grouped together for logical reasons (eg. a stack of kitchen cabinets)
- I want to make a change to a bottom cabinet. On my outline, I cannot access it. Of course, I can select the piece of furniture in the list and manually enter the things i want to change about it; but I cannot see these changes
- my workaround has been to ungroup the items, hide the top pieces until the one I want to work on is visible, make the changes, and then group everything back up together.

It seems like this would be much easier if I could just hide things within a group.