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Posted by fhoofman at May 23, 2010, 11:31:17 AM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
you can see at
http://images.fhoofman.multiply.com/image/1/p...Rik8fA&nmid=338466826

it should be normal rendering when I choose "tools => create advance photo"

by the way mr puybaret, search box at right corner at website, does it work? because I don't see how it work.
I'm using firefox 3.6
thax so much

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 4:20:17 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
I don't see any problem with your equirectangular/spherical image. I viewed it with Panini with no problem, except its low resolution doesn't give wonderful results.

Thank you for reporting the problem in the search box. Last update of the search engine seems to have failed. I updated it again and it works correctly now.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer

Posted by fhoofman at May 23, 2010, 4:30:42 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
I don't see any problem with your equirectangular/spherical image. I viewed it with Panini with no problem, except its low resolution doesn't give wonderful results.

Thank you for reporting the problem in the search box. Last update of the search engine seems to have failed. I updated it again and it works correctly now.


that's what I mean. the result equirectangular/spherical image should work when I choose "tools->create advanced photo phong shader"

but when I choose "tools => create advance photo" (the regular one), it stills show equirectangular/spherical.

I want the regular one.

Posted by fhoofman at May 23, 2010, 4:34:28 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
I keep embarrassed my self. I should choose the right "lens"
I'm so sorry. everything is so new with me

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 4:44:03 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
db4tech and Hans, thank you for your tests. smile


notice the knobs on the unit and strangely the curtains?
The curtains use a flwhite material equal to:
Ka 0.6449 0.6116 0.5447
Kd 0.9837 0.9309 0.8392
Ks 0.8082 0.7290 0.5708
illum 2
Ns 200.0000

Therefore they are too shiny.
Before Sweet Home 3D supported MTL files, the colors of 3D models were colors predefined in this document, and many contributors (including me) were choosing a color without taking into account its shininess and specular color defined with newmtl tags here.
If we go forward with lights management, the shininess of all these old 3D models will have to be reviewed, but this is a tedious work that won't be done until we find the good parameters for the renderers and the shaders.

The window frame and probably the chair have the same problem.
Maybe I should simply reduce shininess and specular color when I use them in SunFlow renderer.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer

Posted by Puybaret at May 23, 2010, 4:51:17 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
fhoofman, Uber shader and Phong shader plug-ins are for test purpose only. I developed them quickly on the basis of the advanced rendering plug-in, and I'll probably delete them later.
If the unstable state of these 2 plug-ins bothers you, please simply don't use or test them.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer

Posted by db4tech at May 23, 2010, 9:36:15 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
Update! smile

I have finally located the settings to achieve the floor style I want Yay!

At first I thought I had found them using the Phong shader but then it turns out that Phong is only able to produce this type of reflection, try getting a plain shiny floor without diffused reflections like Shiny shader when using Phong, even the shiniest surface is diffused!?
So I experimented further and found the settings for Uber, Uber can produce surfaces with a matt finish, diffused reflection through to full glass like reflections.

I also found out that the nasty ceiling light scattering using Uber was caused the default Art of Illusion roughness setting (the Ns value being too low)

One strange thing though, the chair seat has no colour with Uber, could be as Emmanuel mentioned about some original objects being designed with unusual surface colour and values.

Oh and lights aren't rendering brighter with the new shaders, it is just that they are reflecting more.


Okay enough talk here are the results:
First normal Advanced photo render (Shiny shader)



Then Phong

While trying to produce a result like Shiny shader using Phong, this next image is the closest I can get??



Finally Uber (Perfect result)


Apart from some object textures that need fixing Uber produces the closest to the result I want and is the most versatile shader being able to produce dull, shinier or right through to (if required) a glass like surfaces.

Very happy with Uber! smile
db4tech

Posted by Puybaret at May 24, 2010, 8:57:06 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
Thank you db4tech for your nice report.
Uber shader seems to give nice results. smile

I'll have to see if I can use it instead of the shiny shader, but I'm not sure it will be part of the next release. The latest fixes in Beta 2.4 push me to release it very soon.
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Emmanuel Puybaret, Sweet Home 3D developer

Posted by db4tech at May 24, 2010, 11:56:38 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
You're welcome!

Yes I have been carefully watching your Beta 2.4 thread with great interest but had to go back to using 2.3 to test the shaders and also so I could render my model with my extra lights and without the ceiling light.

Okay time for a further shader update.

I tried rendering one of the test models available on the Gallery page and found when using Uber (like the chair seat) the leaves render grey.



After some experimentation I think I now know why.



I could be wrong but I believe just a few tweaks are required to solve both problems. I found with my tree test (as with the curtains and some other surfaces in my room test) that the grey leaves are caused by their texture value being seen as too shiny, at the moment shiny textures values are being interpreted as off the scale so are then rendered grey instead (parts of the curtains where they become too shiny are also grey). Also the rough texture values are being interpreted as too rough which is what caused the extreme light scattering in my first few room render tests.

So rather than needing to edit every model the only thing that should need adjusting is how Uber interprets the presented shiny and rough texture values, smile

After finding the tree leaf solution I then tried editing the textures of the chair model to see if my above hypothesis was correct but sadly the chair model contains layered UV mapped textures, once I exported the model as an .obj from Art of Illusion with the shiny texture corrections, I was then unable to load the model into Sweet Home.

I suppose you are also going to want to know how I managed to get such nice looking grass! wink

db4tech

Further thoughts:
Since Uber shader is a mix of a few shaders, is it possible that instead of the leaves and some other shiny surfaces being grey that their shiny value is being mistakenly interpreted to high so they are being rendered with a Mirror shader instead? Just trying to think of a solution to the phenomena.


Edit: to add further thoughts.

Posted by hansmex at May 26, 2010, 8:43:06 PM
Re: Simulate sun position and lights/shadows
Gentlemen (and gentleladies, off course):

Here is a short test with four shaders, from left to right: Photo, Advanced photo, Phong and Uber.

The two gentlemen are from Google, there is one strong light approx. 50-75 cms in front of them at 1.50 meters height.

I'll do some more tests tomorrow; there's a political debate on TV that begs my attention.

Hans


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